Patty greets Secretary-General Kofi Annan at the UN - 10/02 Photo by Bob Gruen

Q: Patti, the song we just heard, Persuasion, it features your son, Jackson, on the guitar solo. But it's credited "Smith/Smith." Did Jackson co-write that or is that a song that you wrote with Fred a while back?

A: Fred and I wrote that song for Dream of Life originally. We were still addressing record album time, so we had too many songs for Dream of Life so we never actually recorded it. So for this particular album, because it was the last recording that I was going to do in the 20th century, I wanted Fred represented one more time. And I always thought it was a really great song. So we put it together as a band. Oliver one day said, "You know, it's Fred's song, we should have Jackson play the solo on it." And Lenny Kaye, who would have normally played it, was delighted to step aside and have Jackson play the solo, and he did a great job. Just came in and did it.

Q: The vision I have of you during the writing process is a spartan one. I think it's brought about by the cover of your last album, Peace and Noise, because there's that black-and-white picture of you. You have pen in hand, you're writing on paper, resting on a book on a bed. The room is totally unadorned, except for a rosary hanging on the wall. (Right.) So is my vision accurate or am I forgetting about your typewriter? Have you moved on to a computer?

A: I do most of my writing by hand. I'm not computer friendly, yet. And I do have a couple of acoustic typewriters -- I have a couple of really old typewriters. But mostly, I write by hand.

In that shot, I was writing. Oliver Ray took that shot, and, I didn't even realize he was taking the picture, I was deep in my writing. But mostly I write in notebooks. And when I'm writing for the band, like I said, a lot of it starts out improvised, and then I go off with myself and start struggling with the connective tissue of the song -- right up to the last minute. I'm sort of a slight nightmare for everyone because it's at the last moment, I'm still, you know, writing lyrics or improvising in the studio. I almost never have lyrics finished. It's just every once in a while. There's just a handful of songs that I actually have had finished lyrics for. It's always right to the wire.

Q: Whether it's lyrics or poetry, what motivates you to write? Is it the process? Is it the end result? Is it the immortality of the work?

A: It's always different. I mean, I've always written, as long as I can remember. I fell in love with books; it was like love at first sight. I've loved books since I was a small child. As soon as I learned that one could write a book, that one could write their own book, I became interested in writing. I read "Little Women" and there as -- Jo was the writer, and it occurred to me, yes, I can do that. I've been writing all my life and it's -- I write for various reasons: In reaction to things, out of sorrow, out of joy or I record my dreams, or out of duty. I mean, I have all systems of reasons why I write.

Q: Is there any of your work that you feel the closest to or that you feel represents you the best?

A: Well, I really feel this particular album well represents me because I think I'm at the top of my game in lyric writing. There's always a song or two where I feel like I failed lyrically, because I wasn't ready or the words didn't come. I feel extremely proud of this particular work. Like probably all artists, I can get pretty hard on myself. But I've allowed myself to be happy about this album.

Q: I understand that your dad is on the cover of Gung-Ho? And I know that you're very close to your family. Your sister, Kimberly, makes an appearance on the new album. Your late brother Todd was the head of your road crew. (Yes.) Your mom has been known to correspond with your fans. There's a beautiful ballad on the new album. It's called China Bird. And I – I could be wrong here, but I get the feeling that there's a family connection in that song.

A: Yes, there is. My father actually passed away in late August and I was very close to my father. And Oliver wrote the music to China Bird, and -- several months before my father passed away. I heard the music... he was playing acoustic guitar and it was the most beautiful music and I, I said, "I have to have that music. Please let me write some lyrics to that." And I had been struggling with it because sometimes music is so beautiful it seems like there are no words for it. And I went home to see my father. And, my father had a china bird collection. And it was you know, a little shelf and he sent away every month and they would send him -- he sent his check and they sent him a new porcelain bird. My father loved birds and fed birds all the time. And I looked at the china bird collection and I was just moved to, to write... something. I was moved by my father's little bird collection and I thought of my father, because it's the style of song that he likes. His way of unconditional, abstract love, is part of the theme in that song. And it also is a love song.

But also I thought of my daughter, as well. Often two or three people will be within a song. So that song incorporates a few people that I love in one little song. And we decided to put my father on the cover because I had this great shot of my father in towns in Australia. In World War II, because he served in the Philippines and New Guinea, just a great shot of him in his late 20s. You know, idealistic, ready, gung-ho as my mother would say, with his black beret on. And the beautiful thing is, because he's so young, I could see my brother. He so resembles my brother. And it's really like having both my brother and father on the album cover. And both of them were highly supportive of what I do. So I thought it was a nice positive salute.

Q: That was China Bird. It's from Gung-Ho. It's Patti Smith's new disc. It's her eighth album in 25 years. Patti, there was a period of almost 17 years, between 1979 and 1996, when you only released one album and that was Dream of Life in '88. And you said, I guess one of the reasons was that you were raising your young family at the time. But it's also part of the artistic process to like absorb and then give, right?

A: Oh, yeah. And also, it's always humorous to me when people say to me, "Well, you didn't work in the ‘80s, right?" And, you know, I worked harder in the ‘80s than I ever did in my life. Not only tending to children and washing diapers and all of the different things that one -- all the human tasks one performs in raising a family. But I spent hours and hours developing my craft as a writer, studying so that I would have new points of view, new things to say, a better understanding of humankind. I mean, I even studied sports. I didn't know anything about sports. I learned everything about sports. I watched many Masters tournaments. I knew everything about golf. I learned about basketball. I went through all the Piston's wins. You know, I did all kinds of things. I learned about subjects that I wouldn't normally be interested in for the sake of comprehending, what our society likes and what they do and who they are. And studied various aspects of art history, religions, the Bible. So I spent the ‘80s, really, as you said, replenishing myself as an artist and also evolving as a human being, because there is nothing that will stunt one's growth more than staying too long in just being a rock-and-roll star. And I thought it was time for me to actually -- I'm not talking about growing up, I'm talking about evolving as a human being. And so I did a lot of work on myself and on my skills in the '80s

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Q: In light of the fact of what we were just talking about, absorbing and then giving, how do you account for your current prolificness because Gung-Ho is going to be your third album in four years?

A: One thing is my children have gotten to a point, where, you know, they're old enough where they don't need as much tending to, so I have a lot more time. I've always been a prolific person, but basically privately prolific. I do a lot of work that no one sees. But I think the real reason is because I've had a lot of input and energy from other people. Doing albums, for me, is... has always been a collaborative effort. And even though I enjoy being respected -- having my name respected, my body of work as a person who does records, has been basically been collaborative. And I'm working with, right now a very energetic situation.

I had a very difficult period before I began Gone Again. My children were young, my husband was ill. We were struggling, in various ways. Not only with our difficulties such as that, but you know, financially. I had a lot of responsibilities. I've had a lot of support from '95 on -- from friends and colleagues and people I didn't even know. People like Michael Stipe. And it's just been -- you know, it's been a really good period. I mean, even somebody like Bob Dylan, who I greatly was influenced and admired from afar, invited me to open his tour in, I think, late '95 or '96, I can't remember. Probably '96. And I sang with him and he also gave me words of encouragement. And so many people have really put so much belief in me to help me get back on my feet. I could do nothing but produce work to earn all of their support, all of their energy and all of the belief that's been put in me.

Q: Well, now that Jackson and Jessie are a little older, do you think you might tour more than you have over the last few years?

A: Probably. Not like Metallica or somebody (laughs). I'm not gonna -- I can't do that, nor do I have the desire to do that. The way that we perform, every night is different. We really collaborate with the people and the energy of the night. I improvise a lot and it's physically taxing work. But certainly, we'll tour probably more than the last two albums.

Q: Here's a selfish question from someone from Austin, Texas, because I saw your last show in there. I think it was 1979. I'm certain it was the Wave tour. And that's the last time you visited us. So I'm hoping that if you do do some shows in the near future, you will come our way.

A: Well, I have to tell you that I have a very cool booking agent. I know that the term "booking agent" is like, it's -- even he knows, it's not the greatest term. But I told him -- his name's Frank Riley. I said, "I want to go" -- I told him the places that we often go that I like; I said, "But the place I really want is Austin, Texas. Get me -- can you get me to Austin Texas." And he said, "That's a great town." And I said, "I really want to go back to Austin, Texas." And I have three concrete reasons. One is because the people were great. I have the greatest memories of Austin, Texas, because in the '70's, they had a revolutionary and I felt responsible and caring radio station. And you gave me the name of it earlier. We talked --

Q: Right. It was KLBJ.

A: KLBJ. And didn't Lady Bird Johnson, that was her station? But the people, they were given a lot of freedom. And those people still cared about radio as a communication and cultural base, And that was fast fading at the end of the '70's and I really felt that Austin, Texas, was holding on to, you know -- you know, keeping the torch burning. And also, I have my happiest American hotel memory staying at the LBJ suite at the Driskill, which it was just really great. I just felt like I was on the top of the world then. So I have really, really happy memories of Austin. So I hope that the people will want us to return so that I can get a job there.

Q: I don't think that that's a problem. I think they've been more or less begging for you to come back. And just so you know, the station that we'll be airing this interview on KGSR, we are a sister station with KLBJ and we are still co-owned by the Johnson family.

A: Well, great. And I hope you'll -- if you have time, you'll invite me -- you know, invite me over if it's possible.

Q: Will you come play on the air?

A: Yeah.

Q: All right.

A: You have my promise. As long as I don't have to play a B chord. I'll bring my acoustic guitar and sing. I'll be really happy to.

Q: One other Austin question is that people used to tell me to "Ask Patti if the white dress that she wears on the Wave cover -- someone said she bought that in Austin." Is that true?

A: Yes, my brother, Todd -- actually, my brother, Todd, bought it for me. I always liked white dresses. And I mentioned that I wanted to wear one on my next album, if I could find one. And my brother found one. You know, it was like an old-fashioned, looks like a -- sort of like a prarie, prarie girl dress. You know, it was like a really thin white cotton. I still have it. It's folded up in a little chest and I still have it.

Q: We're in New York City. And I guess it was about the time of Gone Again that you moved from Detroit, where you had lived with Fred, back to New York. Why did you move here and has the move been good for you?

A: Well, I moved here because -- well, basically, I'm an East Coast person. I was born in Chicago, but I spent most of my life on the East Coast. And I wanted to come back to the East Coast to be near my family and my friends. And also I had a lot of support on the East Coast. And I felt I would be able to work. And it's been, it's been great for me. I mean I've always loved New York City. I left New York City because, you know, Detroit was Fred's home. So I migrated to the Midwest, for his sake. And I was happy there. But, being out on my own with my kids, I wanted to go back where I knew best. Also, I don't drive, so New York is pedestrian friendly. And it has a lot of great cafés -- you can get a cup o' coffee anywhere. I've always loved New York. It's really like a small town, really, for me, because I can walk down the street and everybody just says hello to me. You know, a cop goes by on a motorcycle and says, "Hey, Patti." And you know, the guy -- the trash man goes by and gives me a wave, and I feel good on the streets of New York.

Q: Well, moving to New York also put you closer to the record business, for better or for worse. Your whole career you've been with one label, Arista Records, (Yep.) and with Clive Davis. How would you characterize your relationship with Arista and the music business in general?

A: Well you know I'm not really music business oriented. I've pretty much done what I wanted. I've been a, you know, a loving thorn in Clive's side for these 25 years. He's always tried to direct me in a certain way and I usually go the other way. But he's always put out my work untampered, just the way I wanted, shaking his head the whole way, but I've done what I wanted. My company hasn't always understood, or rarely understood what I do. But they've always put it out -- untainted, untouched. And that means more to me than anything else anyone else could give me. And I also am proud that I stayed with one company, because again it's the loyalty factor. This is my eighth and last album in my contract with Arista. And I feel like Al Kaline. I did my stretch like he did with the Tigers. Through good and bad, he was a Tiger. And I did my albums, my eight albums, and did them the best I could on the label that took a chance on me. I mean, when Clive signed me up, he saw somethin' in me. I wasn't much of a singer. I didn't really know anything about music or the music business or making records. I just loved rock and roll. I had, and still do hopefully, a revolutionary heart and had things to say. And he gave me the arena to say it in. So whether or not we agreed or saw eye-to-eye, I said what I had to say.

Q: One thing that Patti Smith did was make the issue of a woman's gender meaningless in rock and roll. And then the Lilith Fair came and made it an issue again. Did you feel like that was a step backwards, in some ways?

A: That's not mine to judge. I'm sure they did a lot of positive things for women performers who find it important to be known as a woman performer. That's an important thing to people. For me, I mean, I'm an artist. And I feel like I don't want to be genderized as an artist. People don't genderize male artists. You know, they don't call them "male artists." I've said this over and over, but we don't call Piccaso a male, white painter. I don't want to be known for my -- in terms of my work: my gender or my race or anything. The work stands on its own. But that's how I look at things. And I can't presume my philosophy on other people. But I'm not going to change mine.

Q: Figures from the ‘60s are often asked if their upheaval really changed anything. Do you think that the mid-‘70s punk scene changed anything?

A: I can't really answer that. It's not really -- it's not my beat. For myself, I wasn't even trying to change things. What I was trying to do was make people aware of things, to wake people up. I think before you can change anything, you have to be awake. And that was always what I felt my responsibility was. There's always change. Some change is for the better. It seems like in everything, whether it's issues on censorship or race or gay rights or hunger, all the things that we're constantly trying to make strides in, we keep going back a little and then we make strides and we go back a little, because there's always new generations, new people who have their own opinions of things and their own way of interpreting things. So I can't really give you a specific sociological answer, because I'm just an artist.

Q: As an artist, you're getting ready to release this album Gung-Ho. You want it to communicate to people. Is there a hope that radio stations are going to open their airwaves to this record?

A: Well, I hope so. But I'm always optimistic. I always think that radio stations are going to like certain songs. I don't see how they can resist some of the songs that we do. And certainly not on this album.

People make the decisions. I'm hoping that people will embrace some of the ideas on this album. And also, I think that, for me more than any other album, it has beautiful sound on this record. I don't know exactly why some things sound better. Obviously, we had a very brilliant engineer and producer. But I really make records for people. I don't make them for the music business or for radio stations. I make them for people and they'll make the decision.

Q: I did not read it, but there was a recent unauthorized biography written about you that I heard you didn't approve of. What was it about the book that upset you?

A: That it was unauthorized. You know, if I'm ready to go though my whole life and share it with people, I'll do it on my own.

Q: You grew up having your share of heroes: Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, to name a few. How does it feel now that you're a hero to people when they come up to you and tell you how you changed their lives?

A: It's an honor when people do that. Sometimes it's embarrassing, you know, but not in a bad way. What I always hope is that... I've done some kind of work or done something that's inspired people or made them feel less alone. And they can use it and then discard it and go do things on their own. I wouldn't want people, you know to be so obsessed with, you know, what I did or what my band did that they didn't have their own life. I think they should use it to their advantage and go and be the best they can of themselves.

Q: There was a song you did in 1996 called Farewell Reel and you wrote, "We're only given as much as the heart can endure." And you've suffered a lot of losses since 1989. Do you still believe that statement is true?

A: Well, I think the human spirit's pretty resilient. I mean, I'm determined to always feel that, because I'm determined to go on as long as... you know, I love life. And I'm determined not to let anything beat me down so much that I no longer love it. Also, I think that our heart is continuously being replenished. Even by the people we lose. I mean, my heart felt extremely dark at a point after my friend Robert (Mapplethorpe) and Richard (Sohl) and then Fred (Smith) passed away. But when my brother (Todd) passed away right after Fred, after I, you know, experienced the initial shock, what I experienced was that my heart felt light and beautiful and joyful, because that's the kind of guy my brother was. And I felt filled with him. So he helped replenish my heart to get it ready for other things it would have to experience. So I guess the answer to your question is yes.

Q: You also once sang in 1978, "Outside of society, that's where I want to be." And now you're 53 and you've got two kids is that still where you want to be?

A: Well, it seems like often that's where I am, anyway. I'm just that kind of girl, you know.

Q: Patti, I was thinking of this conversation or of calling it "One Common Wire". And that's a line from your song Grateful. I'm assuming that's about Jerry Garcia.

A: It was inspired by Jerry. You know I was, learning of course to play the acoustic guitar. And one day I was feeling a little blue, because I was being teased about my newly-sprouting gray hairs. And usually, those kind of things don't bother me. But this particular day it, it sort of made me blue. I had sort of tears in my eyes and I was standin' alone. And I shut my eyes for a minute to regroup. And I saw Jerry! I know that it sounds really funny, but I saw Jerry Garcia. He smiled, and he tugged on his long, wiry, gray hair and just gave me a wink. And I opened my eyes and this little piece of music came in my head. And I took my little acoustic guitar... its one of those rare songs that I wrote right off. I wrote the music and I wrote the words without any struggle. And it made me feel better. And after I'd finished it, I was really grateful. And so I decided to call it Grateful in honor of Jerry. And - and I am, very grateful.