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Q: You mentioned piano. This was your first album where you did a lot of the writing on the piano, I think. What brought that about?
A: I mean, I guess I thought writing on piano would save me from falling into the kind of patterns that I get into on the guitar. And I think also I was listening to a lot of Fiona Apple and, just like wanted to - just piano-based stuff and older -- you know, older records, like Elton John and the Band, which has a lot of piano featured. And it seemed to be kind of an integral thing. And, you know, and also, I wanted to learn how to play piano and I was too lazy to practice. So I knew, you know, that if I -- -- if I was writing on piano, I mean, at least I would be forced to sit there and play chords just for the sake of writing.
Q: you do play? I mean, you played in the live DVD that I just watched, so --
A: Well, that's really recent. I mean, that's really recent. And that's the only thing I can play (laughs). I mean, those are -- those are three-note chords. And believe me, I don't vary the position. There's no inversions or anything going on (laughs).
Q: How does the next song, "Going Through the Motions," fit into the narrative of The Forgotten Arm?
A: "Going Through the Motions" is a song that I wrote about my friend that I was talking about, where he had gone to rehab and gone through like a 30-day program and was living in a recovery house. And there was one day when I was talking to him on the phone and he just sounded -- you could just tell that something was going on. And he relapsed not long after that. There's always a prelude to the relapse where, you know, people start going off the rails and, you know, maybe -- maybe the addictive -- you know, like the obsessive or compulsive behavior starts to go in other areas. And so you can kind of tell that people really aren't in recovery.
SONG: GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS
Q: Even though there's a story running through The Forgotten Arm, it seems that, especially with the song we just heard, "Going Through the Motions," you wrote lyrics that could be universally related to.
A: It was just more of a device for me to write songs kind of around this theme. And I think, partly inspired by having, in the last few years, written songs for movies, you know, sort of picturing these scenes as if it's like a soundtrack.
Q: I mean, even a song like "Save Me." I'm not familiar with the movie, but I relate to the song. And I think it's probably the same thing for "Going Through the Motions."
A: Yeah. I mean, I like to have a few details, but not sort of overwhelm you with so many details that its, you know, becomes Gilbert and Sullivan. I'm the very model of a modern major -- general.
Q: I was going to say, it wouldn't be the Kinks. I was thinking in that way in narrative songs.
On your recent live project, you introduced a song as being about bitterness, unhappiness and dysfunction. And then you said, "Oh, wait a minute, that's all my songs." And that was funny. But is that really true, do you think?
A: Well, I like dysfunctional people, but I mean, I sort of put everybody in that category. And I'm not bitter. I'm mean, I'm not -- you know, I've certainly had my bitter moments towards certain circumstances. But what's the other one, loneliness? Unhappiness?
Q: Bitterness, unhappiness and dysfunction.
A:Yeah. I think dysfunction is a flag I will always wave, because it's just universal.
Q: It's the human condition.
A: I know. I know. None of us get the optimal experience. You know, none of us come out perfectly.
Q: During the touring you're going to do to support The Forgotten Arm, will you perform the CD straight through, or will you mix in the new songs with your earlier music?
A: I don't think I'd do the record straight through. We have done that, because we played some just acoustic shows in -- -- at Largo and Los Angeles, where I just played the new stuff straight through. But I think that's probably a bit much to ask of my audience, you know, to listen to 12 brand new songs all in a row, with nothing familiar.
Q: Touring and playing live can be really tough. And on the Live at St. Ann's DVD, you had a very natural stage presence. You were comfortable with the audience. You moved easily from the guitar to the bass to the piano. I'm thinking it wasn't always that easy for you.
A: Well, no. I mean, when I was in 'Til Tuesday, this band I was in in the '80s, it was much more difficult. But circumstances were totally different. I think a big factor for me now is that I own my own label, so there's no, you know, record company pressure to go on the road in a certain way for a certain amount of time. It's kind of whatever -- however comfortably I can travel. You know, just depends on what I can afford. If we can afford a bus or, you know, whatever. You know, and I'm just very careful about scheduling and not -- you know, not playing too many shows in a row and taking some time off so that, you know, that everybody can recharge for a few days and then go back to it. It was very disorienting to go out for months at a time. I mean, I don't really know how people do it. Actually, I do, they take drugs and drink through it, you know, so, or then they collapse -- you know, "collapse of exhaustion," you know. But I mean, I can certainly understand that.
Q: The next song we're going to listen to from The Forgotten Arm is "I Can't Get My Head Around It." Correct me if I'm wrong, because I could easily well be, but is this Caroline sort of incredulous that her partner, John, is an addict or --
A: Well, "I Can't Get My Head Around It" is supposed to be from his point of view. And it was one of the earlier songs that I had written. It sort of started out like maybe -- maybe it's somebody sort of talking about a relationship that's not working for them or maybe -- because it works both ways, you know. And so, in this case, it's John talking to somebody who's trying to get him sober and he's saying, "Well, I appreciate your, you know, input, but it doesn't feel that way to me." You know, like it feels like it's helping. You know, I have a drink and I feel good. So it doesn't feel like it's being -- it's a destructive thing for me
SONG: I CAN'T GET MY HEAD AROUND IT
Q: Aimee, when you began your solo career, did you feel a continuity from the final 'Til Tuesday album, Everything's Different Now, which was 1988, and your first solo album in '93, Whatever?
A: Well, a little bit. I was in this weird limbo period where Everything's Different Now had been released and it was a 'Til Tuesday record and we were signed to Epic and then Epic said, you know, "We don't really like what you're doing and we're thinking of getting rid of you. But ahh -- never mind, go ahead and make another record." It was like a month after that record came out. And so it was just, you know, really a situation we didn't want to stay in. But they wouldn't release us. So for three years, we just kind of -- you know, we waited. We just waited for them to agree to release us.
And in the meantime, I had hooked up with JonBrion, the producer of Whatever and -- I mean, at that point, 'Til Tuesday was me and Michael Hausman, who's now my manager. And he had started managing a band of friends of his. So he kind of got into that side of it. And I started making a record, just recording, with Jon Brion. And so we ended up making an entire record. But over the -- you know, a period of a couple of years. And it just took forever to get the release from the record company in order to put it out.
Had the circumstances been different, I probably would have had a record in between those two that bridged them a little better.
Q: As a songwriter, you have this uncanny ability to balance heart and mind. And the melodies are really tight and there's just this overall attitude of parsimony, you know, getting the most out of the least. Do these qualities mesh with Aimee Mann as a person? Do you perceive yourself as having a balanced personality and do you avoid clutter and stuff?
A: I mean, I think I'm balanced, but I mean, wouldn't everybody say that? You know, wouldn't everybody think they're, you know, like I'm the perfect balance. I'm the kind of person who loves things to be clutter -- free and absolutely cannot achieve that. I have this great, big beautiful desk. And there's just papers all over it and piles of stuff. And I, like, cannot figure out how to make it happen. But I love it. You know, like I love it when it's all streamlined and everything's put away and all in its place. It's like I just don't know how to achieve that. So that's a -- a kind of balance that doesn't really work
Q: And I don't know if everyone would think they are balanced. I don't -- your friend who's going through his struggles probably feels like he's a little off kilter.
Back in 1999, director Paul Thomas Anderson was inspired by your songs. He produced, wrote and directed a film called Magnolia. And one of your songs from that soundtrack, "Save Me," was nominated for an Oscar, a Golden Globe, a Grammy. How did that affect your career and your life?
A: I mean, obviously, there was sort of more business opportunities, like calls that would come in from TV shows that wanted to use a song, or a movie that wanted me to write a song for the movie or that kind of thing. But I think, overall, I noticed just a -- like a shift and kind of a perception, you know, like -- because I think it's very easy for -- you sort of put people in categories. And it's like very easy to put somebody, you know, a singer/songwriter who doesn't really sell a lot of records into, you know, a category of, you know, good, but like kind of a loser, or, you know, like -- you know what I mean? Like --
Q: A cult artist?
A: Yeah. And I think that having the validation of this director, this, you know, really talented director really helped to change people's attitudes towards me and kind of make it seem like I was, you know, more of a serious artist, I guess.
Q: And things have been going pretty well since then.
A: Yeah, things have been going great. I mean, I have my own label and it's -- -- my records sell more than they ever did on a major label. And you know I can afford to keep doing this and having packages with beautiful artwork. And it's just -- I mean, I just couldn't be happier.
Q: You never gave up. But on The Forgotten Arm, to bring it back to the album, the song "I Can't Help You Anymore" sounds like Caroline gives up on John.
A: This is something that happens a lot with drug addicts and, you know, people who are, you know, friends or relatives of drug addicts, where there's always this feeling that, I mean, the drug addiction seems so crazy and then you think like, well, surely, if I just tell them, you know, like how bad it is or try to help them or tell them what to do or -- it's hard to believe that you really can't do anything, that you are as powerless over them as they are over their disease. And I think that in this song, Caroline sort of reaches the point where she says, "You know, I really can't do anything. I'm starting to get dragged under as much as this guy is. So, you know, I've got to cut loose."
SONG: I CAN'T HELP YOU ANYMORE
Q: Aimee, you talked about this a little bit, but you, your husband, Michael Penn, and your manager, Michael Hausman, formed this umbrella organization for individual artists' labels called United Musicians. How did that start and how's it going?
A: Well, United Musicians was really just kind of a very simple idea of, we're putting our own records out. We have some resources. You know, we have some marketing and promotional resources. We have a distribution deal. So if there's other artists who are more or less in my position who want to release their own records, they could utilize our resources. You know -- I mean, I think there's a few records and a few projects that, you know, have kind of taken advantage of that. But what we're sort of finding is that it's really hard to -- you know, that people really are loathe to give up the perceived security of the major label. I mean, it's amazing to me, because, like truly, my label, which is, you know, my manager and a couple of assistants and now we've hired a few more people and we actually have a nice little group of people now. But, I mean, I sell more records than I ever did on major labels. And it's just -- you know, when you kind of eliminate that antiquated system. Companies that are so huge and there's all these kind of, you know, bureaucracy to contend with, that just much less gets done. And you know, who wouldn't want to bypass that and make, you know, ten times the money to boot? And be able to make your own decisions and -- about marketing and promotion and, you know, the creative decisions as well. But, you know, I think people are just -- they're afraid to kind of leave what they know.
Q: You had a song back in 1993 called "Put Me on Top." And you were sort of addressing the music industry in that song. You know, "put me on top or at least put some hope in the bottom of the box."
A: Yeah. Well, that wasn't actually about me, although -- you know, I mean, probably I related to it, but it about a friend of mine. His name is Rik Menck and he was in this band the Velvet Crush. He's like this really funny guy, but he whines a lot. And he'd see some other band and he'd go (adopts whiny voice) "Why are they doing so good? We should be doing better." And I just thought that was really funny. So I kind of wrote it from that point of view. But -- I mean, you know, it certainly applied to my own experience at that time too.
Q: Now, with the freedom of your own label, does it mean that you have more time to grow as an artist, or does it mean that you have to be more hands-on dealing with these things that a label might take care of?
A: I'm not hands-on at all. My manager has been -- he was the drummer in 'Til Tuesday. And we've been friends for over 20 years. And he's just like the greatest guy. And he's really smart. And I totally trust him. And I think the people who -- the other people that work in the office are terrific. And I just -- I mean, I think they totally know what they're doing. I have input in things like the artwork or ad layout or that kind of thing, where we're going to spend money and -- but, you know, I mean, I pretty much take his direction on that.
Q: Good. So you can spend your time learning how to play piano better or whatever.
A: Exactly. No --you know, learning how to slip the jab, like that's -- screw the piano! I'm trying not to get hit in the face here (laughs).
Q: Well, we are Shadowboxing With Aimee Mann today. And we didn't have the gloves off, because there's no need for that.
A: You see, once you get into the boxing metaphors, you can't stop (laughs). It's addictive!
Q: And The Forgotten Arm, the album that we've been talking about this last hour, ends with a song called "Beautiful". It doesn't sound like the story of John and Caroline has a pretty ending, or does it?
A: Well, that's supposed to be a happy ending. But it's also supposed to be way later. You know, like way after the fact where they kind of haven't seen each other for ages and meet up again. And like realize that they really do have -- you know, feel connected to each other. It's not -- they're not necessarily like the love of the century, but like they feel that they're connected and have this kind of special friendship. And so, yeah, I always felt that that was kind of a happy ending. I mean, as happy as you get from me.
SONG: BEAUTIFUL
Q: That was "Beautiful" from Aimee Mann's new CD The Forgotten Arm. And this has been Shadowboxing With Aimee Mann. Aimee, thanks for the workout.
A: Thank you.
Q: I'm watching for the jabs and the right crosses. And thank you for all the great music.
A: Thank you so much.
(end of interview) |
...On her label vs. big labels 
