Q: "The Well" is the name of Jennifer Warnes' latest album. It's been a long time coming. And a visit from Jennifer has been a long time coming as well. I don't remember the last time we were together. It might have been when "The Hunter" came out.

A: Yes, that's right, Jody.

Q: '92, '93?

A: Well, yeah, probably. And then I saw you, you know, a couple of times after that, around when I was out here doing things. But someone called me and told me you were playing my record and it was on rotation. That's like the magic word. So I wanted to thank you for that. Really cool.

Q: Well, you know, I should give credit where credit is due. I had heard the record. I hadn't keyed into one song, but John Kunz at Waterloo (Records) said, "The song is The Well. That is what the record is centered around. Focus on that song." And when I did, then the whole thing opened up to me.

A: Yeah, you've got to kind of be in a watery place. It's a quiet -- when you're home alone, that's the record to play. Or at nighttime. I actually wake up -- when I can't sleep, I'll wake up and go in the kitchen and play it. You know, just sit in the kitchen. And for some reason, I listen to it all the way through the end, which is a good sign.

Q: Is that unusual for you to listen to one of your own albums?

A: Well, the last two, "The Hunter" and "The Well," I listen all the way through, because we constructed them that way. But the rest, the other albums, it's like, oh, God, I wish I hadn't done that. So, you know, fragmented. But now I understand how to make a record that isn't -- you know, (how to make one that is) a quality 45 minutes.

Q: Now, you've been making records for about 30 years. And you're saying just now you've discovered what you feel is the way to make a cohesive work?

A: Well, I'm so old, when I came on the scene, they told me to shut up and sing, girly. It was a good 15, 20 years into the journey that anyone said, "What do you think, dear?" And at that point, I said, "Well, I have quite a number of ideas. Would you like to hear them?" And that was the beginning of "it".

Q: Of more artistic input and control. But I want to go back to "sing this girly". The first time most of us saw you was -- you were the hippie girl on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.

A: Yes, sirree, Bob.

Q: We're talking late '60s?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: And how did that happen, because you grew up in Los Angeles, right?

A: Yeah. I was playing a restaurant in Orange County. And Pat Paulsen was my co-bill. And we were just buddies. And he was the stand-up comedian for the Smothers Brothers' warm-up. And then he got swallowed into the ensemble and they needed a warm-up spot. And he said, "Oh, I've got a pal." And really, like that. And here I am 20 -- 18 years old. You know, I was just so young. And they put me in the singing spot to warm up the audience. And Tom saw me and he said, "Oh, can she do comedy?" And of course, I could do comedy, because I can't tell a joke to save my life, so I was the perfect foil for everybody. And so they put me in like these skits and stuff with Tony Randall and all these real professional people. And I kind of got costumed and got done. And they did -- you know, they did the TV thing on me. And really, I cut my teeth on TV there. And my mentors were Rob Reiner, Steve Martin and Carl Gotlieb, who wrote Jaws. And the greatest -- you know, they ended up being incredibly talented people later.

Q: What a blessing.

A: It was a stroke of buddy genius, in God's hands.

Q: Well, it's funny how our acquaintances become legends. I mean, I knew Stevie Ray before his first record came out. And I'm sure Rob Reiner and Carl Gotlieb, they were just people that you knew. And Stevie was a guy that I knew, like many people in Austin. And now, he's a statue. And I mean that with all the love in my heart.

A: I don't know if he wants to be.

Q: I'm sure he'd much rather be alive than be a statue, but it's just the --

A: Well, I think he is alive, but the statue thing, you know, it's like, that's odd, isn't it?

Q: It's mythical. And it makes people into myths and legends.

A: Austin ought to be careful about caricaturizing itself too soon. And I love that statue. I often go visit it. But you have to be careful. I've watched it happen to other cities where they capitalized on their persona to the extent that they went way past it. You ought to be careful, you know.

Q: I think you do. And at the same time, as you say, the statue is meaningful to you. So it serves such a purpose.

A: Well, Stevie, he's just very much alive, as far as I see it. But I didn't know him personally. Roscoe knew him. And Roscoe introduced me to him. So it was through Roscoe that I got to understand what he was doing. And then he came and played on my record. And we had some really nice musical moments together that was just another one of those, you know, God said, "Here, you want this?" And I had the sense to say, "Yes, of course."

Q: Well, we should back up a little bit. Roscoe Beck was your partner and a musician you played in the group Passenger, when you were with Leonard Cohen. And the album we're referring to that Stevie played on was an album of Jennifer's called "Famous Blue Raincoat." And Stevie played on First We Take Manhattan.

A: That's right.

Q: And well, we mentioned Roscoe. I was going to ask you how someone from California wound up with such strong Texas ties. And he's the reason, part of it.

A: Well, Henry Lewy had been using Weather Report with Joni Mitchell. And then they went out on their own tour and she was making a record. And the next best thing to Weather Report was Passenger. And at that time, they heard of this band in Texas that would tour and probably work for one-tenth of what Weather Report was working for, who knows? And so they flew Passenger out and put them up in a hotel in Hollywood and recorded them with Joni Mitchell. Did you know that?

Q: No.

A: Yeah, they were -- they started out as Joni Mitchell's next band. And Leonard Cohen was also being produced by Henry Lewy, heard about this band and said, "Well, can I use them, too?" And so that's how "Various Positions" -- "Recent Songs", let's say, in one of those albums was born.

Q: One of Leonard's albums with Passenger as the band?

A: Yeah, I think it's -- it's "Recent Songs".

Q: Yeah, "Recent Songs" was first.

A: Yeah. So they are the band of "Recent Songs." And I slipped in and, you know, like observed a little bit. And then he went out on that tour. And that was the year that Arista Records put an injunction on me and said I couldn't sing for anyone ever. And I had three years before my contract ran out. And I was looking at a three-year silence. And it was hurting me so much. And I called Leonard, who was my buddy and friend for so many years now and I said, "I've got to get out. I've got to sing. And the only way I can do it is as a background singer. Will you just snug me into that band some way and I'll play like I'm dumb and I'll just do a real good job. I can be on a bus and I can write songs and no one will know." And he said, "Okay." He said, "But be careful about the bass player."

Q: Now, who thought that your three-year silence would have so many blessings and things that would -- I mean, that was your entrée to working with Leonard, to meeting Roscoe and then also to coming to Texas.

A: Yes. And then after that tour, we all went back -- I came back and I learned about jazz from them. And was introduced to Stevie and all kinds of things.

Q: What year are we talking about?

A: Oh, I can't remember. Probably '79.

Q: Let's hear the title track of this album, The Well, and then we can talk more about how it's influenced by Texas and how so many years later you came to the well. This song co-written by our guest, Jennifer Warnes and Doyle Bramhall and features Doyle Bramhall II on acoustic lead guitar.

A: On Denny Freeman's borrowed acoustic guitar...

The Well (Song)

Q: That was the title track to Jennifer Warnes' new album is "The Well." Co-written by Jennifer and Doyle Bramhall. And on acoustic lead guitar playing one of Denny Freeman's funky acoustic guitars, Doyle Bramhall II. You don't hear Doyle the 2nd playing acoustic guitar very often.

A: No, he was coming off Roger Waters' tour and all his equipment was in Texas in a truck somewhere. And he said, "I don't have an instrument." And so Denny Freeman said, "Here, use mine."

Q: That Texas hospitality.

A: Yes.

Q: We mentioned that you first came to Texas toward the end of the '70s, after making friends with Roscoe Beck, who was in the band Passenger, and you were all playing with Leonard Cohen. But you stayed here for a while, into the early '80s. And then throughout the years, you would sort of revisit. You would turn back up, you would get an apartment for a while. What kept drawing you back to Texas?

A: I wish I could tell you that. Just this last trip, I brought all these like packages of vitamins and stuff to help me get through the day. You know, nothing -- no drugs, just remedies. And I haven't used them once since I've been here. And I was remarking to Doyle Bramhall today that my body wants to be here. You know, it's like, there's something about my psyche and my body that just loves being here. And I don't know, I've lived in five different apartments around town for various times in my life, various reasons. And sometimes I just come here to sleep. I just come here to absorb -- you know, listen to the grackles and not do anything and recover from my life, you know. So I don't know exactly what it is. I just think that something's calling me. And I have history here. My great-granddad came through and was married in Texas and then they went on to Phoenix. So there's some familial history here, too.

Q: And you came back -- the song "The Well", which we just heard, tell me a bit about that, because that's about Jacob's Well in Wimberley, Texas?

A: Yes.

Q: I don't know too much about it.

A: It's a cave in the middle of a river. It's the Cypress Creek in Wimberley. And there's the hole in the middle of Cypress Creek. And the water goes down the hole and then really far below that is the Colorado River, which is quite strong current. And so divers have been known to go down not knowing there's a river down there. And so, you know, quite a number of divers have been lost over the years. So it's both scary and powerful and beautiful. And it's a power spot. It's like of like Ayres Rock. You know, it has that convergence of a lot of different energies there. So Doyle showed it to me. And it was at a time when we were both in transition in our lives. And so we were talking about, you know, what to do. And we were doing that talking right there over the hole.

Q: And it really is a metaphor for the record. Because the record has a lot of nature on it and healing and things like that.

A: Yeah. You know, I want to back up for a second. You asked why I came to Austin. My mother just recently passed away and I'm working with a healer here, who's just astonishing. And I'm doing grief work with her. And I do come here to re-acquaint myself with the balance between my spirit and my life. And so "The Well" is really -- it's one of those little spots where you can do some of that work. And I think when you're young, you're so busy being physical and you're so enraptured with the world that you can see and you're so busy displaying yourself to the world as a visual item here, tangible thing that you do, that when you go through crisis and -- however you go through that, all those battles and all those challenges and all those great things that your destiny calls you to do suddenly shift and they go into the invisible world. And suddenly, you find yourself in a battle that no one can see. And you get dressed in the morning. You go to work and you talk to everybody. You look like the same person, but the truth is, either in dreams or in pain or in tears or in fantasy, you're battling in ways that can't be seen. And I think that that happens to everyone. It's just not very well discussed. It's not often discussed. So I come here to work in that way.

Q: And you not only lost your mom last year, but you lost your dog, who had been a companion of yours for a very long time.

A: Yeah, he's on -- his picture is on "The Well".

Q: So it wasn't -- 2001 probably wasn't your favorite year?

A: Oh, well, you know, when bad things happen to you, it doesn't mean it's a bad year. It just means that -- that means the year you go through certain doorways. I'm sorry I lost Cooper and I lost Mom, but you know, I'm going out the same way someday. So I wanted to learn about it.